I love this guy. It is actually the only data that explains why there is so much more depression and suicide in developed countries. This being true even when there is so much more pain and suffering in other places. The problem with choices.
But I do purpose one question. How do we close Pandora's box. How do you take away the choices without a backlash vacuum.
I don't remember if I found this from an earlier assignment in this class or just from my love of TED talks, but Malcolm Gladwell gives a great talk about the proliferation of choice and its role in making us happier.
(Gladwell's talk can be found at: http://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html )
I think Barry Schwartz is a defensive pessimist. I agree that so much choice can be oppressive, but I don't think we should be telling people to curtail their dreams based on what they think is possible. If we're bad at affective forecasting, are we also bad at practical forecasting? If we're bad at predicting our futures, shouldn't we be cautious not to constrain ourselves based on what we think is possible? Where does "dream big" fit in?
I agree that choice gives us freedom, and I also agree that too many choices can be overwhelming, causing us to second-guess our decisions and making us incapable of even choosing. We want more options because it is appealing to us to be given a choice of our own, but when it comes down to it, we often ask others for input on what we should do or we spend an excessive amount of time trying to decide. When we finally do decide, we constantly worry if we made the right choice or second guess ourselves, causing even more inner struggle and we find our decision unsatisfactory. What we really need to do is to be happy with less options, or be happy with what we choose. We have become a society of people who are never satisfied with what we get, even when we get the things we thought that we wanted.
As far as the ability to have so many choices I would have to agree that it really complicates things and causes probably more anxiety than freedom. I think it is really a huge miss-belief on the part of younger generations such as mine. There's so many choices for everything from material things like how to dress, what things to own, all the way to personality, sense of self, etc. If I were to guess I would say previous generations were probably better off because choices were limited and there for less stress on what products to have and what is necessary. Cell phones, Ipods, Ipads, Laptops, TV's, Computers, everything involving technology and also clothing these are things we spend so much time stressing over what we should choose, which of course inevitably all lead back to money which is one of the biggest stresses we have now a days with the economy and everything being so expensive.
With so many options, it’s easy to feel like we made the wrong choice. However, I think it can be a good thing to feel like we’ve made the wrong choice, especially if we can learn from it. Critiquing our own decisions and choices is probably relevant to human existence. I’ll admit it’s a hilarious cartoon, but think if animals settled for a “You’ll do” like depicted in video, their genes were probably eaten by a lion. I think that setting low expectations is not a healthy way of dealing with decisions or with life in general. I don’t have PhD like the guy in the video and he’s probably way smarter than me but I’m going to have to disagree with him on that point. In my opinion having low expectations allows us to be satisfied with short term results but also dissuades us from reaching our full potential in the long run. If setting lower expectations of ourselves was the popularly held belief, human intelligence will probably be surpassed by chimps or dogs in about 250 years. That is an exaggeration but in all seriousness aren’t high expectations what drive human progress? What if surgeons set lower expectations and they weren’t really expecting their patients to survive surgery? They might not be as upset with their choices during the surgery if the patient dies, but did their lower expectations influence the results? I see where this guy’s coming from with the idea that we really shouldn’t care about what type of car we drive or what shoe style we’re wearing. He says that in today’s age we are never pleasantly surprised because we are always expecting the best. However, I think that expecting the best can sometimes be the only way to make progress. When we surpass our already high expectations we can be pleasantly surprised and make a difference while we’re at it. The rich guy may not be pleasantly surprised about finding a $1 bill in his pocket but that’s because he has Benjamins in wallet.
I would have to agree with Jesse. If we arbitrarily did away with choice we would in fact be weakening progress. Despite this I still stand behind my above comment. There is some essence to the idea that choice brings unhappiness. This paradigm brings about the original question I posed. How do we close Pandora's box. Do we stop progress. You makes the rule of which choices we get to choose from. 1984 here we come.
I can agree with the basic premise of this idea, however I have a hard time following the logic that underlies having a lowered expectation. I fully don't believe that a society that is used to so many choices can improve by reducing the amount of choices. It comes to mind the concept of desiring an orange, we desire the orange because we know it exists. If we didnt know choice then why would we desire it? The problem being is that we know the options but are too busy living in the should of's, could of's, and would of's. I think the speaker is on to something, but I'm not sure if I would want to live in a society that limits my choices just because we are not supposedly "manufactured" to critically think about decisions/choices we make.
I think that choice is a good thing. In the video he states that with so many options to choose from people find it too difficult to choose at all which equals a paralysis. I think he has some point to that in the more choices the longer it will take to choose but without many choices our world would be limited. I think choice invokes a creativity into people and society. I think it brings things to a deeper and more imaginative level.
I think its funny that he does mention imagined alternatives and how we use that imagined alternative choice to take away from the choice we made and cause us to be disappointed. Going along with the saying, "It all looked great... I cant wait to be dissapointed." I think that is somewhat true but because of the emotional states we put ourselves into. I think we mentally tune ourselves into this state of being where we embrace failure and disappointment when its not necessary just because in the off chance it were to occur we need to embrace ourselves to be ready for it. We overcompensate for this slight chance disappointment could occur.
At the bake sale we were discussing this video and how it related to all the choices we had and whether all the choices were a good thing or bad thing. Though the person who overheard our converstaion told us that they thought it was great we had so many choices. Which do people prefer? Simplicity or complexity?
I personally prefer complexity but maybe that is just my artistic side speaking out.
I definitely understand where the speaker is coming from on this topic and he makes some valid points. We do have a lot of choices in present day society; do we have too many? It's hard to say exactly when a certain number of choices is too many. I also have to argue that we cannot say we were "happier" or "better off" in the past or in earlier times in history, because there are too many variables at play. I simply think the struggles of OUR TIME are different than those of the past. I do agree that having more choice does create higher expectations, but I am not sure that is a bad thing, especially when you have so many choices. What if higher expectations allow us to make decisions more efficiently? I understand that maybe some people may be more easily disappointed because their expectations are "too high" but is that a problem with too many choices or maybe we could all learn to appreciate what we have, instead of what we do not, more. I guess maybe it is hard for me to understand this view, because I personally do not spend much time worrying about decisions I did not make, because I did not make them. I make a choice with much thought and then appreciate the outcome, because at one point it was what I wanted and thought was best.
I agree with Christina, I do think it comes down to preference in some ways on whether we function best with little choice or a lot of choice. I personally prefer the variety, the complexity and excitement of choices and I do not mind putting in the extra thought to make my decisions carefully.
With choice it's easier if you know what you want before you have to deal with a massive selection.In a different perspective there are millions of people in the country, billions in the world and most of us find one(or two, or sometimes three ....) that we would marry.
If you are using so much of your brain power making choices about mundane stuff like jeans and the 50 types of peanut butter in the store in the first place, then the problem with choices. Most of that stuff doesn't matter.
I think that choices can both make us happier as well as more stressed. Before we had the option of many choices like we do now, we were happier with what we had. Earlier generations weren't worried about whether or not their jeans were nicer than their classmates jeans. As long as you had jeans they were all the same. It made for less decisions, and much less money trying to have nicer things than your neighbor. I also agree with Jacqueline's point about all the different electronics that kids need to have now. In previous generations you had a cd player (or a tape player), as long as it still played music, you didn't need a new one. Now I see the same parents every year coming to buy the next new ipod that their kid has to have, even though theirs works perfectly fine.
Obviously having low expectations makes it easier to achieve those expectations and not set us up for disappointment if that is all we are aiming for. I feel like in our society today it is impossible to change things and go back to having limited choices. Our society is constantly improving, progressing and trying to attain perfection. Ok, nothing is perfect but i dont really believe we expect it to be. Perhaps we are motivated by the idea of perfection. We are constantly evolving and adapting. Also people are so unique and having a wide variety of choices makes the world interesting, i think. As far as the side effect he gave about paralysis, I suppose that can be a harmful consequence to having too many choices, it does make life more stressful. I cant imagine the world being any other way.
I enjoyed this video very much. He is a very good speaker with great ideas. I like how he started with the "maximize choice = maximizing freedom = maximizing welfare" which later he proved to be false. That was a very interesting approach, because at first you are thinking that may be a good idea, then he goes and proves it wrong. I agree to a certain extent with him on his theory. The reasons for why choices cause misery are 1) regret and anticipated regret, 2) opportunity costs (which means you are less satisfied with your choice because you keep thinking about how the other choices were better), 3) escalation of expectations, and 4) self blame. I can definitely see where this is an issue in our society. We don't seem to appreciate what we have as much as we should because we are exposed to so many things that we feel what we don't have is always better. This theory goes along with the old saying, "the grass is always greener on the other side, but when you get there it is still just grass". Maybe it is not the overwhelming amount of choices that is the problem, maybe it is our lack of appreciation for things we have that is the problem. Our society needs to learn how to find happiness in what we have, not dwell on how happy we would be if we had different things, because once we attain those things of desire they will once again become the things we loath because there is always something better out there.
Schwartz contests the official dogma of all western and industrialized societies, which is the idea that "if we are interested in maximizing the welfare of our citizens, the way to do that is to maximize individual freedom." Schwartz explains that "Freedom is in and of itself good, valuable, worthwhile, essential to being human, and if each of us can have freedom, we can act on our own to do the things that will maximize our welfare." In summation, Schwartz gives a concise recap of the dogma by stating, "The way to maximize freedom is to maximize choice. The more choice people have, the more freedom they have, and the more freedom they have, the more welfare they have."
From what I understand, Schwartz believes that modern progress allows us to make nearly an unlimited number of choices in respect to our lives. The choices we make always come at an opportunity cost, which makes choosing the best option difficult. When we do choose, even if it is the best of the best, we tend compare it to all of the choices we could have made instead, and feel dissatisfied as a result. If our choice brings about any unwanted effects, we automatically place the blame on ourselves, and rationalize our blame in belief that we failed ourselves in our decision making process. He also mentions that we have "inflated expectations." From this, I kind of get the sense that Schwartz views our choice making in a "grass is always greener" sort of way - we all want the greenest grass, even if the greenest of the greenest it does not exist. I'm not entirely sure I understand his logic correctly, but this is the gist I got.
Schwartz's first argument that the number of choices we have leave us in a state of paralysis rather than liberation. I think this is somewhat of a blanket statement, and that other outside factors limit our choices, such as our finances, social standing, personal circumstance, etc. While these choices are "available," they may not be physically obtainable due to a myriad of factors, some of which I mentioned above. Schwartz doesn't take into account the differences in privilege we all have, and the way our privileges play a role in the types of "things" we can obtain, whether that be a physical item, or something less tangible.
I'm kind of stuck in the middle as to whether or not choices paralyze us. I really like his explanation that too many choices takes away from our enjoyment of what we did choose because we dream about what we could have chosen. I also agree that too many choices can be paralyzing and the idea that opputunity costs subtract from our satisfaction because we compare what we got with what we expected to get. And it's all because with more choices our expectations are higher. I thought it was interesting to think that with fewer options we could blame the world more, but with more options we blame ourselves more.
But I disagree with him a little because I really think it's about how we frame the choices we have to make. For instance continuing with his jeans explanation. If I go into a store looking for jeans, I already know that particular styles of jeans don't look good on me, and I can tell from looking at them if I like how the material of the jeans look. That automatically cuts down the choices I have to choose from. So instead I only have to try on a few pairs of jeans to find the ones I like. So if the choices are set up almost like a grid, it's easier to make a choice because I know many of the given options are not what I want.
17 comments:
I love this guy. It is actually the only data that explains why there is so much more depression and suicide in developed countries. This being true even when there is so much more pain and suffering in other places. The problem with choices.
But I do purpose one question. How do we close Pandora's box. How do you take away the choices without a backlash vacuum.
Jonathan Bellino
I don't remember if I found this from an earlier assignment in this class or just from my love of TED talks, but Malcolm Gladwell gives a great talk about the proliferation of choice and its role in making us happier.
(Gladwell's talk can be found at:
http://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html )
I think Barry Schwartz is a defensive pessimist. I agree that so much choice can be oppressive, but I don't think we should be telling people to curtail their dreams based on what they think is possible. If we're bad at affective forecasting, are we also bad at practical forecasting? If we're bad at predicting our futures, shouldn't we be cautious not to constrain ourselves based on what we think is possible? Where does "dream big" fit in?
I agree that choice gives us freedom, and I also agree that too many choices can be overwhelming, causing us to second-guess our decisions and making us incapable of even choosing. We want more options because it is appealing to us to be given a choice of our own, but when it comes down to it, we often ask others for input on what we should do or we spend an excessive amount of time trying to decide. When we finally do decide, we constantly worry if we made the right choice or second guess ourselves, causing even more inner struggle and we find our decision unsatisfactory. What we really need to do is to be happy with less options, or be happy with what we choose. We have become a society of people who are never satisfied with what we get, even when we get the things we thought that we wanted.
As far as the ability to have so many choices I would have to agree that it really complicates things and causes probably more anxiety than freedom. I think it is really a huge miss-belief on the part of younger generations such as mine. There's so many choices for everything from material things like how to dress, what things to own, all the way to personality, sense of self, etc. If I were to guess I would say previous generations were probably better off because choices were limited and there for less stress on what products to have and what is necessary. Cell phones, Ipods, Ipads, Laptops, TV's, Computers, everything involving technology and also clothing these are things we spend so much time stressing over what we should choose, which of course inevitably all lead back to money which is one of the biggest stresses we have now a days with the economy and everything being so expensive.
Jacqueline Nizer
With so many options, it’s easy to feel like we made the wrong choice. However, I think it can be a good thing to feel like we’ve made the wrong choice, especially if we can learn from it. Critiquing our own decisions and choices is probably relevant to human existence. I’ll admit it’s a hilarious cartoon, but think if animals settled for a “You’ll do” like depicted in video, their genes were probably eaten by a lion. I think that setting low expectations is not a healthy way of dealing with decisions or with life in general. I don’t have PhD like the guy in the video and he’s probably way smarter than me but I’m going to have to disagree with him on that point. In my opinion having low expectations allows us to be satisfied with short term results but also dissuades us from reaching our full potential in the long run. If setting lower expectations of ourselves was the popularly held belief, human intelligence will probably be surpassed by chimps or dogs in about 250 years. That is an exaggeration but in all seriousness aren’t high expectations what drive human progress? What if surgeons set lower expectations and they weren’t really expecting their patients to survive surgery? They might not be as upset with their choices during the surgery if the patient dies, but did their lower expectations influence the results? I see where this guy’s coming from with the idea that we really shouldn’t care about what type of car we drive or what shoe style we’re wearing. He says that in today’s age we are never pleasantly surprised because we are always expecting the best. However, I think that expecting the best can sometimes be the only way to make progress. When we surpass our already high expectations we can be pleasantly surprised and make a difference while we’re at it. The rich guy may not be pleasantly surprised about finding a $1 bill in his pocket but that’s because he has Benjamins in wallet.
- Jesse Miller
I would have to agree with Jesse. If we arbitrarily did away with choice we would in fact be weakening progress. Despite this I still stand behind my above comment. There is some essence to the idea that choice brings unhappiness. This paradigm brings about the original question I posed. How do we close Pandora's box. Do we stop progress. You makes the rule of which choices we get to choose from. 1984 here we come.
Jonathan Bellino
I can agree with the basic premise of this idea, however I have a hard time following the logic that underlies having a lowered expectation. I fully don't believe that a society that is used to so many choices can improve by reducing the amount of choices. It comes to mind the concept of desiring an orange, we desire the orange because we know it exists. If we didnt know choice then why would we desire it? The problem being is that we know the options but are too busy living in the should of's, could of's, and would of's. I think the speaker is on to something, but I'm not sure if I would want to live in a society that limits my choices just because we are not supposedly "manufactured" to critically think about decisions/choices we make.
-Lauren Goudreau
I think that choice is a good thing. In the video he states that with so many options to choose from people find it too difficult to choose at all which equals a paralysis. I think he has some point to that in the more choices the longer it will take to choose but without many choices our world would be limited. I think choice invokes a creativity into people and society. I think it brings things to a deeper and more imaginative level.
I think its funny that he does mention imagined alternatives and how we use that imagined alternative choice to take away from the choice we made and cause us to be disappointed. Going along with the saying, "It all looked great... I cant wait to be dissapointed." I think that is somewhat true but because of the emotional states we put ourselves into. I think we mentally tune ourselves into this state of being where we embrace failure and disappointment when its not necessary just because in the off chance it were to occur we need to embrace ourselves to be ready for it. We overcompensate for this slight chance disappointment could occur.
At the bake sale we were discussing this video and how it related to all the choices we had and whether all the choices were a good thing or bad thing. Though the person who overheard our converstaion told us that they thought it was great we had so many choices. Which do people prefer? Simplicity or complexity?
I personally prefer complexity but maybe that is just my artistic side speaking out.
-Christina Valeriani
I definitely understand where the speaker is coming from on this topic and he makes some valid points. We do have a lot of choices in present day society; do we have too many? It's hard to say exactly when a certain number of choices is too many. I also have to argue that we cannot say we were "happier" or "better off" in the past or in earlier times in history, because there are too many variables at play. I simply think the struggles of OUR TIME are different than those of the past. I do agree that having more choice does create higher expectations, but I am not sure that is a bad thing, especially when you have so many choices. What if higher expectations allow us to make decisions more efficiently? I understand that maybe some people may be more easily disappointed because their expectations are "too high" but is that a problem with too many choices or maybe we could all learn to appreciate what we have, instead of what we do not, more. I guess maybe it is hard for me to understand this view, because I personally do not spend much time worrying about decisions I did not make, because I did not make them. I make a choice with much thought and then appreciate the outcome, because at one point it was what I wanted and thought was best.
I agree with Christina, I do think it comes down to preference in some ways on whether we function best with little choice or a lot of choice. I personally prefer the variety, the complexity and excitement of choices and I do not mind putting in the extra thought to make my decisions carefully.
Jessica Hews
With choice it's easier if you know what you want before you have to deal with a massive selection.In a different perspective there are millions of people in the country, billions in the world and most of us find one(or two, or sometimes three ....) that we would marry.
If you are using so much of your brain power making choices about mundane stuff like jeans and the 50 types of peanut butter in the store in the first place, then the problem with choices. Most of that stuff doesn't matter.
I think that choices can both make us happier as well as more stressed. Before we had the option of many choices like we do now, we were happier with what we had. Earlier generations weren't worried about whether or not their jeans were nicer than their classmates jeans. As long as you had jeans they were all the same. It made for less decisions, and much less money trying to have nicer things than your neighbor. I also agree with Jacqueline's point about all the different electronics that kids need to have now. In previous generations you had a cd player (or a tape player), as long as it still played music, you didn't need a new one. Now I see the same parents every year coming to buy the next new ipod that their kid has to have, even though theirs works perfectly fine.
-Chelsea Craig
Obviously having low expectations makes it easier to achieve those expectations and not set us up for disappointment if that is all we are aiming for. I feel like in our society today it is impossible to change things and go back to having limited choices. Our society is constantly improving, progressing and trying to attain perfection. Ok, nothing is perfect but i dont really believe we expect it to be. Perhaps we are motivated by the idea of perfection. We are constantly evolving and adapting. Also people are so unique and having a wide variety of choices makes the world interesting, i think. As far as the side effect he gave about paralysis, I suppose that can be a harmful consequence to having too many choices, it does make life more stressful. I cant imagine the world being any other way.
Gina Marmanik
I enjoyed this video very much. He is a very good speaker with great ideas. I like how he started with the "maximize choice = maximizing freedom = maximizing welfare" which later he proved to be false. That was a very interesting approach, because at first you are thinking that may be a good idea, then he goes and proves it wrong. I agree to a certain extent with him on his theory. The reasons for why choices cause misery are 1) regret and anticipated regret, 2) opportunity costs (which means you are less satisfied with your choice because you keep thinking about how the other choices were better), 3) escalation of expectations, and 4) self blame. I can definitely see where this is an issue in our society. We don't seem to appreciate what we have as much as we should because we are exposed to so many things that we feel what we don't have is always better. This theory goes along with the old saying, "the grass is always greener on the other side, but when you get there it is still just grass". Maybe it is not the overwhelming amount of choices that is the problem, maybe it is our lack of appreciation for things we have that is the problem. Our society needs to learn how to find happiness in what we have, not dwell on how happy we would be if we had different things, because once we attain those things of desire they will once again become the things we loath because there is always something better out there.
Christi Ledwith
Posting for Bianca Sturchio 1 of 2:
Schwartz contests the official dogma of all western and industrialized societies, which is the idea that "if we are interested in maximizing the welfare of our citizens, the way to do that is to maximize individual freedom." Schwartz explains that "Freedom is in and of itself good, valuable, worthwhile, essential to being human, and if each of us can have freedom, we can act on our own to do the things that will maximize our welfare." In summation, Schwartz gives a concise recap of the dogma by stating, "The way to maximize freedom is to maximize choice. The more choice people have, the more freedom they have, and the more freedom they have, the more welfare they have."
From what I understand, Schwartz believes that modern progress allows us to make nearly an unlimited number of choices in respect to our lives. The choices we make always come at an opportunity cost, which makes choosing the best option difficult. When we do choose, even if it is the best of the best, we tend compare it to all of the choices we could have made instead, and feel dissatisfied as a result. If our choice brings about any unwanted effects, we automatically place the blame on ourselves, and rationalize our blame in belief that we failed ourselves in our decision making process. He also mentions that we have "inflated expectations." From this, I kind of get the sense that Schwartz views our choice making in a "grass is always greener" sort of way - we all want the greenest grass, even if the greenest of the greenest it does not exist. I'm not entirely sure I understand his logic correctly, but this is the gist I got.
-Bianca Sturchio
Posting for Bianca Sturchio 2 of 2:
Schwartz's first argument that the number of choices we have leave us in a state of paralysis rather than liberation. I think this is somewhat of a blanket statement, and that other outside factors limit our choices, such as our finances, social standing, personal circumstance, etc. While these choices are "available," they may not be physically obtainable due to a myriad of factors, some of which I mentioned above. Schwartz doesn't take into account the differences in privilege we all have, and the way our privileges play a role in the types of "things" we can obtain, whether that be a physical item, or something less tangible.
-Bianca Sturchio
I'm kind of stuck in the middle as to whether or not choices paralyze us. I really like his explanation that too many choices takes away from our enjoyment of what we did choose because we dream about what we could have chosen. I also agree that too many choices can be paralyzing and the idea that opputunity costs subtract from our satisfaction because we compare what we got with what we expected to get. And it's all because with more choices our expectations are higher. I thought it was interesting to think that with fewer options we could blame the world more, but with more options we blame ourselves more.
But I disagree with him a little because I really think it's about how we frame the choices we have to make. For instance continuing with his jeans explanation. If I go into a store looking for jeans, I already know that particular styles of jeans don't look good on me, and I can tell from looking at them if I like how the material of the jeans look. That automatically cuts down the choices I have to choose from. So instead I only have to try on a few pairs of jeans to find the ones I like. So if the choices are set up almost like a grid, it's easier to make a choice because I know many of the given options are not what I want.
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